Interview with John Lee – Portray Perceptions

I’ve been captivated by John Lee’s meticulous observational research and progressive approaches to paint in his work. I’ve lengthy adopted his work’s spectacular evolution via his social media updates. So, when John agreed to an electronic mail interview from his dwelling in Williamsburg, Virginia, I used to be thrilled. In our dialog, we delve into his background, however the highlight is totally on his insights concerning colour and his methodical method to observational portray. A number of years in the past Antrese Wooden interviewed him in her podcast on Savvy Painter which gives an in depth have a look at his previous influences and inspirations. Our dialogue right here additional expands on a number of features about his artistic use of colour and compositional concepts. A heartfelt because of John for sharing his time and insights so brazenly on this interview.

John Lee, based mostly in Williamsburg, Virginia, is an Affiliate Professor of Portray at William & Mary, is a graduate of the certificates program on the Pennsylvania Academy of the High quality Arts in Philadelphia, holds a BFA from the College of Pennsylvania, and obtained his MFA from the College of Indiana in Bloomington. John is an oil painter who works instantly from life with an curiosity in colour, mild, area, and weight. He has labored in conventional genres comparable to nonetheless life and self-portraiture, however his main subject material is inside areas. John has proven at varied venues nationally, however primarily within the northeast area, together with a 2019 solo present at First Avenue Gallery in New York. He’s a previous member of the Zeuxis Nonetheless Life Affiliation and has proven with the Midwest Paint Group. He just lately served as a juror for the Bethesda Portray Awards in Bethesda, MD (Serving Virginia, Baltimore, and Washington D.C.). From the artist’s CV on his web site

Larry Groff: What had been your early pre-painter years like? Was there one thing specifically that made you need to grow to be a painter?

John Lee: Larry, thanks for this chance. Individuals typically say they’ve at all times drawn since childhood, and I’m no exception. All through faculty, I used to be the ‘faculty artist,’ in my youth, I crafted issues from on a regular basis supplies—dragons from milk cartons and objects with popsicle sticks, paper cups, scotch tape, paper plates, and so forth. I created quite a few puppets, masks, costumes, spaceships, and props for motion figures. Maybe that was when my creativity really flourished.

I used to be born to artsy mother and father who met in artwork faculty. My father taught studio artwork on the faculty degree, exposing me to the artwork world, museums, galleries, school rooms, and artwork books. Within the mid-Nineteen Eighties, throughout highschool, I developed a deep fascination with hip-hop, sketching graffiti in notebooks and on partitions. I delved into graffiti as an artwork kind, which led me to the New York Artwork World, pop artwork, and neo-expressionist portray. This sparked my curiosity within the broader artwork world. I explored Pop artists, their reactions to Summary Expressionists, and the influences stretching again to Picasso. Regardless of this, I initially resisted finding out artwork in faculty, not desirous to merely observe in my father’s footsteps.

As an alternative, I attended a liberal arts faculty however was academically unprepared, although artwork got here naturally to me. After failing out, I returned dwelling, labored odd jobs for six months, after which joined my father’s summer time drawing class. This expertise was transformative; every thing clicked. I immersed myself in basic drawing books and modernism essays. One essay on modernism, revealing its distinction from ‘Modern,’ left me so electrified I couldn’t sleep that evening. It was throughout these college-level studio courses, many taught by my father that I solidified my path in artwork and cast a brand new reference to him. From then on, I’ve felt most at dwelling in artwork studios, museums, galleries, or artwork bookstores. They’re my conduit to the world.

Moreover, a pivotal second occurred whereas I perused Nicholas Fox Weber’s ebook on Leland Bell. Sitting in an artwork historical past class, I used to be captivated by the colour and motion of a determine’s leg in one among Bell’s ‘Morning’ sequence work. It appeared flat but felt stable and alive. This revelation deepened my obsession with Bell’s work, main me to scour Philadelphia for his ebook. Bell’s insights resonated with me, and his phrases have been a recurring supply of knowledge. Understanding Bell opened my eyes to Matisse, Picasso, Cezanne, and finally Corot, Titian, and Chardin, amongst others. Bell taught me to understand the ‘music’ in portray, enabling me to understand the concord within the masterpieces that preceded him.

LG You studied at PAFA; I’m guessing that was massively necessary when it comes to studying to color and forming your concepts about artmaking. Are you able to inform us one thing about your expertise there?

John Lee: The Pennsylvania Academy of High quality Arts (PAFA) was vital for varied causes. Nonetheless, wanting again, I’ve at all times regarded my preliminary artwork courses on the native faculty in my hometown as essentially the most influential. A number of core ideas had been instilled in me, comparable to seeing colour and gesture drawing, stemming primarily from artwork books. Kimon Nicolaides’s ‘The Pure Technique to Draw‘ emphasised gesture as a type of empathy, capturing the actions and weight of the world. Portray concepts from Charles Hawthorne, gleaned from his ebook and Arthur Stern’s colour ebook, taught me to understand when it comes to gestural and spatial actions and to see the world as stunning colour relationships. These ideas resonated with me immediately; they’re why I paint and am drawn to the joys of seeing. This ardour carried over to PAFA, the place some instructors acknowledged my knack for colour,working throughout the entire composition concurrently, and my capability to discern underlying summary relationships.

I selected PAFA for its studio artwork programs (with a mannequin), the much less daunting prospect of residing in Philadelphia in comparison with NYC, and a curiosity in regards to the metropolis the place I used to be born (although I had no reminiscence of it, having moved to Arkansas at one yr outdated). At PAFA, I grew fascinated with educational artwork coaching, delving into books on French educational coaching and anatomy. My earlier schooling centered on broad gestures, so I taught myself to work ‘on level’ with a charcoal pencil, mastering contours and cross-hatching, and making quite a few drawings from casts and skeletons. I memorized the names of muscle mass and bones. I immersed myself on this educational type for a few years, considering it was what the Academy epitomized.

But, deep down, I knew this wasn’t the route my coronary heart was really drawn to in artwork. Once I painted a nonetheless life, it inherently took on an summary high quality. Jan Baltzell, a painter and trainer, acknowledged this, typically showcasing my work alongside her class’s. I resonated with Baltzell’s educating, notably her inclusion of Matisse and a memorable Lennart Anderson postcard, a picture of the portray with the pile of nails and hammer. Anderson’s work. I felt very related to Lennart Anderson’s work as I knew it from the ‘Artwork of the Actual’ ebook I noticed in my first portray class. Each Anderson’s and Leland Bell’s, work was a longstanding obsession of mine, although I felt a more in-depth affinity to Anderson’s temperament. In my last yr at PAFA, I met Scott Noel and felt a direct connection. He grew to become an influential determine in my life, particularly round 1996 earlier than his rise in reputation.

Publish-graduation, whereas working and portray, I always imagined Scott observing my work, pondering his potential suggestions. Over time, I disagreed with a few of his teachings, which felt restrictive, akin to enjoying basketball with professionals. I wasn’t interested by finishing a portray (or part) in a single session. Nonetheless, Scott’s insights on ‘tone’ helped me reconcile my earlier educational coaching’s restricted palette with my preliminary schooling, which was rooted in main and secondary mixtures. This melded my understanding of worth, boring temperature, and spectrum colours. Scott served as a bridge, harmonizing my beforehand disparate concepts about colour.

LG: You bought your BFA at Penn after which your MFA on the College of Indiana. What was that like? Who did you primarily research with, and what may you say about how they influenced your route in portray?

John Lee: I attended Penn at evening whereas holding a day job, leaving no time for portray throughout these two years. My coursework primarily centered on artwork historical past and literature, with poetry and brief story courses notably fulfilling. Throughout this time, I developed a confidence in writing that I later utilized to narrate portray with liberal arts college students. I took a category known as City Sociology that defined town of Chicago when it comes to social zones, such because the downtown leisure district, surrounded by the skyscrapers of the enterprise district, surrounded by the commercial, after which the suburban zone. I noticed this as a standard still-life setup, with the skyscrapers because the bottles and the factories because the apples. Maybe this pertains to what Erle Loran discusses in his ebook that dissects Cezanne’s compositions.

Upon finishing my research at Penn, I instantly enrolled in an MFA program at Indiana College, drawn by its respect for figurative work and its affordability, as I used to be self-financing my schooling. Earlier than attending Indiana, I researched this system on-line, a comparatively new software. I found Tim Kennedy and Eve Mansdorf, each IU’s portray instructors and former Lennart Anderson college students, whose work I admired. My analysis additionally led me to Maureen Mullarkey’s web site, the place I encountered the works of Ken Kewley, Dik Liu, and Catherine Kehoe.

Additional analysis revealed that many painters from the Kansas Metropolis Artwork Institute continued their research at Indiana College for his or her MFA, together with college students of Wilbur Niewald, one other lifelong fascination of mine. This steered a possible connection to IU. Nonetheless, I discovered that some school members at IU didn’t share my admiration for sure painters like Porter, Sickert, Lopez, and Uglow, which led to some disagreements throughout my tenure. Regardless of this, I obtained help from all of the educating school.

One of the helpful takeaways from my time at IU was a bit of recommendation I overheard from Eve Mansdorf. She suggested that no matter a part of a portray you’re engaged on needs to be at eye degree. This revelation has been essential to my follow, main me to desire easels that enable for such changes, even for small panel work.

LG: You describe your self as a ‘Responsive painter’ who engages with ‘visible stuff.’ How is what you do completely different than what is likely to be known as a perceptual painter?

John Lee: Throughout my time at IU, I experimented with completely different approaches to portray. I ventured into creating summary figures (breakdancers), preceded by in depth drawing research, and a big determine portray that includes myself and a pal, specializing in the life throughout the figures. Whereas these tasks pushed the boundaries of my earlier work and garnered optimistic suggestions from school, two different work resonated extra deeply with me. One was a still-life from my studio; the opposite depicted a tranquil hallway in a Nineteenth-century schoolhouse’s basement. Each captured what I instinctively sought in my artwork: consideration to mild, nuanced surprises, found colours, tactile high quality, and a way of varieties sitting in area.

This method is what I imply by ‘Responsive,’ a time period I adopted from the basic drawing textbook Nathan Goldstein’s ‘The Artwork of Responsive Drawing.’  In responsive portray, one is moved by the act of wanting. It transcends mere depiction or illustration. It’s not about conveying data or subject material via paint. As an alternative, it’s about being stirred by the sunshine, colour, motion, gravity, and the sudden connections and disconnections. It’s about sensing one thing past the topic and its obvious factuality.

This attitude may, or maybe ought to, inform our understanding of ‘perceptual portray.’ It appears self-evident {that a} painter working instantly from life needs to be excited by their visible expertise. Nonetheless, I’m not satisfied that that is at all times the case. For me, the which means has little to do with the inherent significance of objects. The subject material doesn’t maintain private or social significance for me. But, I’m wondering if features of my work, like colour, may stem from familial connections. My mom, an beginner inside decorator, painted our lounge ceiling an earthy violet. An older portray of my father featured a cardboard field. Over time, earthy violets and cardboard hues have grow to be vital to me. Whether or not this choice is inherited or coincidental stays unclear.

I’m not interested by the subject material for its personal sake nor essentially fixated on the paint. Nonetheless, I enjoyment of each once they join deeply with mild, colour, gravity, and actions. It’s about extra than simply rendering the topic convincingly. The subject material serves merely as a conduit for this exhilaration. Goldstein emphasised that each one drawings (and work) ought to originate from pleasure in regards to the topic’s potential expressive power and the way it may coalesce within the paintings.

LG: Your excessive engagement with colour in your work is outstanding. May you inform us a few of your ideas on why and the way colour is necessary to your work?

John Lee: Thanks. Why is colour so important to me? That’s a difficult query. I discover myself captivated by colour moments. Simply in the present day, strolling via a brand new campus constructing, I used to be struck by the colours contained in the door jambs down a hallway. I’d cross a vacant storefront and be drawn to the hues inside or the colours solid by a shadowy porch. A colour occasion may cease me when strolling down the hallways in some constructing. Within the mornings, I wake to the colours close to the ceiling corners in my bed room. These experiences have been part of my life eternally. It’s akin to being ensnared in a pleasant realm. I’ve painted basements, interested in their darkish hues. Basements, typically websites of entrapment in fiction and actuality, intrigue me.

Some basement work I titled “The Unbelievable Shrinking Man,” impressed by a Nineteen Fifties sci-fi movie the place a person, shrunk to an insect’s measurement, finally ends up trapped in a basement. However as a painter, I’d relish being ‘trapped’ in a basement! Even ready in a financial institution, I fantasize about spending a yr portray the colours across the edges of the financial institution’s inside. If a painter isn’t skilled to understand colour and light-weight, they may enterprise out trying to find topics. However a color-trained painter sees hues proper of their entrance yard, their dwelling, or upon waking. Fairfield Porter as soon as stated, ‘An artist who can’t paint with out the proper subject material is like somebody who can’t get away from bed within the morning as a result of they haven’t discovered life’s which means.’ That’s not a direct quote however a recollection.

LG: You typically work inside a slim vary of colour values, which helps create a harmonious really feel to your palette. How did you develop this method, and what do you imagine it provides to the general impression of your work?

John Lee: I’m unsure if this was a deliberate selection, however each consciously and subconsciously, I’ve shied away from sturdy contrasts of sunshine and shadow, as that’s typically anticipated. I’ve deliberately averted home windows or doorways in my work, openings that would result in areas with extra intense mild. As an alternative of embracing a broad selection, I’m drawn to focusing intently on a selected passage or problem. After we navigate between two realms, like mild and shadow, it’s too simple to fall again on sure generalizations. Gentle may solely must make sense in relation to the shadows, and the reverse can be true. With a common sturdy mild juxtaposed towards a powerful darkish, one may get away with merely suggesting every thing. Nonetheless, I’m at all times intrigued by the notion of portray a wall the place the values are subtly diverse, but there’s a wealthy range of colours and hues inside that wall. A painter typically simplifies the wall after which concentrates on a obtrusive beam of daylight hitting it. To me, drama will be simpler to seize, and there’s extra to find after we look past the drama.

Outdated films, particularly these filmed in New York Metropolis through the ’70s or ’80s, maintain a sure appeal. I typically discover myself gazing previous the actors and characters, wanting across the edges of the scene to watch the weathered, hazy environment of NYC from that period. Equally, throughout division conferences, I’d discover my gaze drifting to the colours surrounding my colleagues as we sit across the desk. I recall Jan Baltzell, the PAFA trainer I discussed earlier, advising somebody to “Take note of flooring in work and the way completely different artists deal with flooring.” That recommendation has resonated with me. I’m captivated by flooring in Dutch work, as seen with Saenredam’s cathedrals, Gerard Ter Borch’s interiors, Rackstraw Downes, and plenty of others. . This pertains to your query a couple of quieter drama, not a lot the overt drama on the heart of the portray, whether or not narrative motion or distinction of sunshine and shadow. Bonnard’s bathtub work, with their colours mirrored in flooring, tubs, and tiles, come to thoughts, as does Morandi’s nonetheless lifes, the place objects cluster tightly on the portray’s nucleus, akin to an Albers sq..

As a youth exploring faculty artwork applications, I typically encountered work of hallways with dramatic mild reflections beneath an open door. These work struck me as merely intelligent, a type of ‘have a look at this dramatic reflection!’ method, with the reflections sometimes brushed in loosely, nearly glibly. I bear in mind considering I’d by no means need to make such work again then. Nonetheless, over time, I’ve grown to like portray flooring in varied settings, like institutional hallways, dropping myself within the delicate colour nuances.

Compressed colours are fascinating. Ingres as soon as remarked that essentially the most lovely factor in artwork is 2 juxtaposed colours of the identical worth however completely different temperatures. I used to consult with this as ‘Simultaneous Distinction.’ I admire the sense of compression in colour, a sense of gravity: shut colours, a way of density. Wanting again, I’m wondering if this choice signifies a deeper need for extra frequent hugs.

LG: Your portray is an ‘try and unify noticed colour divisions’ with out counting on chiaroscuro. What do you imply by this?

John Lee: My response to your final query touched upon this. Nonetheless, concerning the event of my method, I primarily understand colour as one thing found via mixing paint. I can’t merely choose a colour and use it instantly. Whereas I discover quite a few fascinating colours from manufacturers like Williamsburg Paint, it’s not a matter of selecting a tube of colour and making use of it straight or with minimal alteration, comparable to making a tint. As an alternative, colour should emerge from a basis of prismatic main and secondary paint mixing. Consequently, I typically discover myself firming down colours greater than not, maybe contributing to unity inside my palette.

LG: What are some challenges of working with this restricted colour vary? Does the lighting of your setups or scene equally keep away from deep shadows or overly shiny contrasts?

John Lee: I believe a part of what makes this query fascinating is that by ‘restricted colour vary,’ one could possibly be referring to the restricted colours of the setup, or one could possibly be referring to the restricted colours on my palette (the vary of colour paint mixtures). Relating to the colour within the setup, the noticed colours are so shut collectively that it could possibly be a bit like strolling on ice; one false transfer and one loses the unity of the airplane. I need to get the energy of the colour, which is to be daring, but in addition to mood the colour to discover a worth and depth that enables the colour to sit down and lock along with the opposite colours.That is to be contemplative.So, it’s about looking for my manner between the boldness, which is expounded to the dance and the gesture, after which to the contemplative aspect, which might kill that felt response to the colour. It’s like Fauvism; that can be not Fauvism. It’s maybe self-defeating. I see this as an intuition, a pure a part of my sensibility, and for that reason, I really feel related to a number of Twentieth-century British painters who appear to have an identical, associated sense of colour.Uglow, Harold Gilman, Duncan Grant, Vanessa Bell, and Gwen John, amongst others.

So, I can assume that I’ve the colour, however then after I deliver the portray into one other mild, I’ll really feel very completely different, or if I again up a bit extra from the portray, it might not really feel as appropriate because it did after I was nearer to the portray.I need the colours to unify, on the one hand, however then again, I can typically take pleasure in it once they kind of ‘slip out of drugs’ a bit, and there’s something a bit jarring. However the jarring high quality is one thing that I really feel I arrived at in hopefully a extra honest manner than could be the case if I used to be too consciously pushing a dramatic color-intensity distinction. I need the portray to search out itself organically, the poetry to be a by-product of engaged on the colour relationships.

I’ll hunt down conditions, lighting conditions, or occasions based mostly on one thing aside from deep shadows and powerful contrasts.I’ll like contrasts of temperature or depth over worth.As I give it some thought, I can’t even take into consideration or recall any current paintable moments for me that had been based mostly on sturdy worth contrasts. These conditions (with sturdy worth contrasts) are often seen in classroom conditions the place the studio is darkened with no overhead lighting, after which a clamp mild is shone on a set-up of all-white still-life objects.Starting college students typically work with the need to fill in extremes, blacks and whites, which might be preconceived after which will be positioned into the drawing, whereas painters, on the opposite finish of that spectrum, are pushing the colour into place.I’m fascinated about how a Nineteen Eighties-era Wolf Kahn mixes the paint on canvas, so the colour is conjured and tuned in an open method relatively than being understood and positioned. I need to paint between these two extremes, in search of satisfying notes and chords of colour.

LG: How does your observational portray course of affect your colour selections? How faithfully do you reply to the colours you’re taking a look at? Why is (or isn’t) that necessary to you?

John Lee: I observe the colours I see, understanding that the colours are elusive.I don’t assume I will be utterly devoted to what’s there.The colour can at all times be one thing else from what I initially noticed or anticipated.I see the potential for differing colours nearly all over the place.I don’t consciously invent colours that knowingly depart from commentary.With some work, I will be in a mindset the place the colours are stronger in how I see or paint them.I see these colours ‘in’ the topic, throughout the view I’m portray, and try to tug them out.I need to be true to what’s there, to be respectful of what’s there.But it will probably additionally really feel irresponsible to the portray as a complete.It’s like life, maybe.I’m not an excellent liar, I don’t like to inform lies.However I additionally understand that to make one thing occur, it might be essential to be dishonest on some degree.Making a portray entails composing all the big components with some sense of decision. I believe I let myself get slowed down with the numerous little colours I see in an space.I keep away from simplifying passages.How damaged up ought to the airplane be?It appears there may be at all times extra to see inside any given space.This colour exploration is extra necessary than delivering a sure topic or object.I’m much less interested by telling you one thing in regards to the topic and extra interested by wanting carefully on the colour I see.

LG: Once I studied with George Nick, he careworn to college students the significance of cautious commentary and getting the precise colour tone. I cherished his work, however I typically felt his colours weren’t the identical as what I noticed. I assumed his colours had been typically extra fascinating than I noticed in nature. He discouraged slavish copying of nature, as an alternative to work parallel to it. With this in thoughts, what extra are you able to say about getting “accuracy,” good pitch, and particular person expression in colour?

John Lee: A number of years in the past, I performed an experiment the place I accomplished two fast small self-portrait head work in simply over an hour every. Beginning with a fast pencil drawing, I laid down massive colour shapes, mixing them simply as soon as and portray them cleanly with out later alterations. I centered on approximating the worth, permitting the hues to be as exaggerated as wanted. This was to gauge suggestions on social media, with some painters who studied with Nick in thoughts. I puzzled whether or not I over-analyze colours in my work, pondering, “Why can’t I simply put it down and let or not it’s?” Whereas I obtained optimistic on-line suggestions, I couldn’t undertake this method usually. I must belief and imagine in what I make, which implies slowing down and meditating on the portray as I work.

I’ve lengthy admired George Nick’s work and adopted his profession. Once I turned 41, I spotted from a Nick catalog that his profession appeared to take off round 43, his age after I was born. This commentary was based mostly on his output as I perceived it. From what little I may glean, his educating appeared to emphasise worth and tonal relationships, probably instructing his class to create work with solely three values. Whereas I wasn’t a Nick pupil and could also be mistaken, it appears hue is likely to be extra versatile so long as it aligns with relative worth. Worth seems extra justifiable than quite a lot of hues in nature.

I take into account Fauvism as a motion the place painters might need thought, “What if worth (tone) is much less necessary?” The Fauvists amplified hues, letting their depth be as wanted, typically diminishing mild and darkish relationships, which may flatten varieties and area. This flatness is likely to be a byproduct of their concentrate on enhancing colours. (Relating to Fauvism, I’ve heard arguments that Matisse’s colour works as a result of tonal construction, a viewpoint I don’t essentially share.)

I used to be taught to view all colour properties as equal gamers; no single side like worth or depth is extra necessary than one other. Coloration is an open, evolving idea. Typically, it’s thought that appropriate worth relationships enable colour to be utilized nearly decoratively. I see colour as an interwoven side, always discovering itself. Adjusting one aspect impacts the others.
Coloration is overwhelming, akin to an introvert confronted with myriad selections. It stops me, conserving me centered on a nook of my portray, harking back to the paradox of halving the gap to a wall with out reaching it. I aspire to be broadly decisive, however that usually feels pressured. I love Gabriel Laderman’s nonetheless life work, which use a single colour for the ground. I search unity, like an ant making an attempt to grasp your complete room, in distinction to a painter in a spaceship viewing your complete portray as a continent.

These days, I’ve been portray largely whereas seated. This attitude sacrifices some features of standing as much as paint, however I admire the child-like viewpoint it gives. Moderately than dominating tables from above, I discover beneath tables and into shadows, like peering into caves or observing porches throughout the road. They grow to be architectural areas relatively than mere furnishings to cross by. I need my work to be like exploring a overseas metropolis, particularly on these days with out an agenda, discovering intriguing areas. I purpose to copy this exploratory expertise alone in my studio.

LG:What position, if any, does temper or emotion play in your colour selections? Would utilizing colour to evoke or orchestrate a temper curiosity you? Are you able to speak about a particular instance?

John Lee: I typically attempt to seize or create a temper in my work, however it is a reflection I make in hindsight. I understand ‘temper’ in two features. ‘Temper’ for me sometimes signifies an general feeling conveyed by the colour or, extra exactly, the sunshine. I purpose for an overarching sentiment, but I don’t consciously concentrate on it whereas portray. I discover myself drawn to darker, extra subdued scenes when it comes to colour. Examples embody the rear of a quiet thrift store throughout a weekday, a vacated storefront in a strip mall, a darkish hallway, or a basement. These settings often lack human presence, which is usually after I discover colour most intriguing. My work have been described as ‘melancholy’ or ‘unhappy’. There’s some fact in that, but it surely’s not my intention to intentionally depict particular human feelings via my work.

LG: Your subject material typically depicts cluttered areas, jam-packed with books, provides, instruments, tables, beat-up couches, and submitting cupboards; your colour orchestration helps transcend the mundane complexity right into a visually cohesive composition. Do you take into account these objects and area simply the scaffold for the true present, which is the colour/form/mild interplay? Or do you see the geometry and drawing of the setup as being equally necessary to the composition and which means of the portray?

John Lee: I’ve considered this on and off for a while. Sometimes, I really feel the urge to sketch the topic with pencil to seize the fluid, intuitive connection between shapes and values, objects and light-weight. Nonetheless, it’s often the colour that originally captivates me, making it an important aspect of the picture. This results in a vital disconnect between drawing and portray. It’s unsatisfying to answer colour with out having it firmly located in area, to see it lock in. I typically fantasize about being a pure summary painter who can focus solely on colour, free from the constraints of drawing. But, I would like the composition to convey a way of area and a grounding airplane. It’s paradoxical as a result of whereas I need the portray to emphasise colour and geometry, I additionally want a tangible sense of the ground. Consequently, the portray may veer in direction of a extra typical area, doubtlessly accommodating a determine, one thing I desire to keep away from in my work.

LG: Many painters who work from life use a spot-color approach taught by painters like Edwin Dickinson and Charles Hawthorne. How do you see your method as completely different or just like theirs? Are these artists an affect in your work, and if that’s the case, how have you ever tailored or diverged from their strategies to fit your inventive imaginative and prescient?

John Lee: Charles Hawthorne’s ebook, “Hawthorne on Portray,” was one of many first I learn in a portray class, given to me by my trainer. Ever since, I’ve paid shut consideration to painters related to the teachings of Hawthorne and Dickinson of their portray lineage. In my thoughts, I’ve constructed an imaginary ‘Hawthorne household tree’ comprising painters who studied with Hawthorne, Dickinson, Hensche, and Nick, or these probably influenced by their educating. I like the idea in its purest kind: observing the world visually via colour relationships. It’s greater than a way; it’s a sensibility, a manner of seeing. Henry Hensche’s colour research and demos, with their vibrant colours, excite me, although his accomplished works and general aesthetic enchantment much less to me. Nonetheless, the notion of constructing with colour, prioritizing it to the extent of spending appreciable time mixing particular person colours that captivate me, is key to my portray. Whereas I’m unsure if Hawthorne himself instantly influences me, the idea of perceiving the world as colour spots, shapes, and planes is significant.

I significantly admire Dickinson’s work however don’t typically take into consideration them. His work had developed a cult-like following, which could have initially put me off. Appreciating Dickinson’s work via artwork ebook photographs is difficult; there are fewer books on his work, and the photographs are sometimes darkish and troublesome to decipher. This doesn’t diminish the standard of his work, which I discover terrific. His ‘At First Strike’ work, created with out preliminary drawing or a preconceived last product, painted in response to an preliminary impulse or emotion, remind me of de Kooning’s working technique. I see a connection between the blurriness and unstable footing in Dickinson’s work and images, with the need to seize one thing within the second. My work don’t embrace that degree of openness; I require extra construction and gravity. Nonetheless, I do relate to Dickinson when it comes to colour, as he reportedly blended his colours down extensively, involving plenty of paint mixing to realize his hues.

LG: What colours do you set in your palette as of late? Do you often combine your colours individually because the portray progresses, or do you combine massive batches of colours you assume you’ll need earlier than you begin?

John Lee: I combine the colours one after the other as I am going. Coloration can solely be discovered within the second. The idea for my palette has been cadmium orange, everlasting inexperienced, and Mars violet.A secondary triad is simply one thing that I stumbled upon, however I’ve preferred the colours that I obtain when mixing them. Ultramarine Blue is the blue that I exploit essentially the most, however typically Phthalo Blue is used as effectively. I exploit Cadmium Crimson and Yellow within the deep kind; I desire the ‘deep’ to the medium I’ve used for years.I exploit Alizarin Crimson, Phthalo Inexperienced, and Ivory Black.I’ve a couple of different colours on the palette that I’ll use once in a while, because the portray requires, however I primarily use types of secondary and first colours.I don’t assume they’re like spectrum colours, however they’re colours I can combine with.The colours on my palette embody Venetian Crimson, Cadmium Crimson medium, Cadmium Crimson Deep, Cadmium Orange, Cadmium Yellow Deep, Naples Yellow Grumbacher, Yellow Ochre, Titanium White, Ultramarine Blue, Phthalo Blue, Everlasting Inexperienced, Cadmium Inexperienced, Phthalo Inexperienced, Alizarin Crimson, Mars Violet, Ivory Black.

LG: I learn that you simply use Utrecht and Williamsburg paints. I heard some folks dislike Utrecht’s paint, saying it had an excessive amount of filler. I believe Lennart Anderson as soon as stated, ‘Good painters can use low cost paint and make one thing fantastic, however college students can buy the most costly paint they’ll get. Care to touch upon this?

John Lee: I don’t see an issue with the Utrecht paint in that I am going via massive tubes of my colours (in each Utrecht and Williamsburg), however I’ve a number of smaller tubes of Williamsburg and Holbein colours round that I by no means use!Costly paint could also be arguably stronger in a manner, but it surely’s additionally akin to a way of supplies and materiality that I don’t relate to.I don’t look too lengthy on the instruments and supplies.

LG: Are you able to describe the strategies you use to create the phantasm of spatial recession in your work? Correct angles and perspective would appear necessary in your work. Does colour play a roughly necessary position within the phantasm of spatial recession than the standard perspective in your work?

John Lee: I’ve at all times preferred the concept in the event you paint the relationships, the area takes care of itself.I don’t use one thing like a vanishing level or do one thing purposely to make the area recede.Once I see one thing not sitting spatially, I modify it, in fact, but it surely has to do with the colour not being appropriate or the sharpness of an edge or a transition being too jarring.I like the concept it’s simply portray colour relationships accurately to make the portray work.However accurately could not imply copying nature.The angles are naturally a part of making it work. Every thing is each a colour and a form.The form has an axis and edges.It goes again to the sooner query in regards to the geometry of the drawing in relation to the colour. I believe it’s all necessary (like the colour and the drawing) and organically intertwined.We dissect composition for comfort to debate work and train portray to others.

LG: Your work typically emphasize diagonals or orthogonal strains; you don’t appear to emphasize the vertical/horizontal grid-like relationships. Is that this one thing you concentrate on?

John Lee: In hindsight, I understand that after I get an concept for a portray, I desire to be positioned barely off to the aspect to create a diagonal composition. It’s not an excessively dramatic diagonal, but it surely’s not a direct frontal view both. I imagine {that a} frontal view may seem too flat or symmetrical, whereas a diagonal view creates a way of depth and discovery. When considered from an indirect angle, the planes within the portray seem to rise upwards, but they nonetheless appear grounded and in keeping with gravity.

LG: What would you say is most important on your compositions to get proper?

John Lee: After giving it some thought, I’ve concluded that every thing should really feel proper. It might sound imprecise, however composition is about attaining that sense of concord. An ideal portray for me creates an open and grounded area, however doesn’t essentially invite somebody in. The colour should be distinctive and fascinating, but it also needs to mix seamlessly with the spatial airplane of the portray. In different phrases, I need the distinctive high quality and weirdness of the colour, however I additionally need the colour to really feel prefer it exists throughout the area of the portray.

The portray ought to strike a steadiness between performance, storytelling, and abstraction. I don’t need it to be too summary or too grounded in actuality. It should exist someplace within the center, negating these two extremes. Though it’s an summary portray, I need it to be based mostly on commentary.

LG: Has there been some concept or follow in portray you as soon as strongly believed in that you simply’ve modified your thoughts about?

John Lee: No, however I’ve hung out fascinated about artists and genres coming from a distinct perspective.I learn a couple of books about Frank Stella, for example.As talked about earlier, whereas on the Pennsylvania Academy, I bought into researching educational educating for a few years and was a bit obsessive about anatomy for a yr.I attempted some crosshatching. Prior to now, I used to be an avid researcher of the Nineteen Eighties artwork world and the painters they had been influenced by.As a researcher, I bought into Pop, Minimalism, Summary Expressionism, Neo-Expressionism, and Neo-Conceptualism.On reflection, it was all simply curiosity and making an attempt to know explicit artwork worlds
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However actually, every thing clicked for me at first as a result of pleasure of noticed colour and light-weight.I instantly fell in love with painters like Fairfield Porter and Lennart Anderson, who had been instantly accessible.The love of colour quickly led me to see that left leg in Leland Bell’s 1976 ‘Morning’ portray (in Fox Weber’s ebook).The understanding of area and motion that I bought from Bell opened the world of portray for me, alongside the attention for colour and light-weight from the colour spot concepts, and it has constructed upon this basis ever since.

LG: In your educating, do you ever discover that college students and college in the present day are extra involved with problems with social relevance, narrative which means, and the coed’s intent, necessary issues to debate in critiques? Have the extra conventional standards about the place portray can go incorrect visually taken a lesser position? Are the measures for evaluating ‘good’ and ‘unhealthy’ artwork completely different in the present day than what you skilled as a pupil? Does that matter?

John Lee: College students considerably understandably need to make one thing significant, and so they know that social or private topics are significant.They make a picture or kind that depicts that significant topic, both instantly or not directly.Whether or not they work figuratively or non-figuratively, from commentary, picture, creativeness, or reminiscence, they perceive a selected topic and need to talk their concepts.They need to inform their story, whereas I need them to listen to one: that of Matisse, Picasso, Morandi, or Mondrian.Artists talk via the sorts of marks, the interplay, and the colour interplay.For instance, there may be which means in the place the horizon line is positioned in a panorama portray. The visible kind tells a narrative; it’s not about pointing exterior of itself to search out which means.However these sorts of issues with educating have at all times been there!They return so far as I can personally bear in mind.I can recall many examples of badly painted photographs which might be alleged to have which means due to their subject material, that one may see in studio school rooms or galleries.Mercedes Matter wrote that article about educating artwork in 1971, I believe. And I’ve at all times held the New York Studio College within the highest regard.I can bear in mind the primary time I noticed the varsity’s catalog within the spring of 1990 and the way it spoke to me.
However does it matter?I’m hopeful with my educating and need everybody to get it.I need them to see the colour and really feel the gravity, empathize with the topic visually, really feel the actions and counter-movements, and perceive one thing about visible dynamics and the way they’ve inherent which means.

LG: To what extent can irony and conceptual features flip what might need historically been thought of a ‘unhealthy portray’ right into a ‘good portray’?

John Lee: I’ve heard of an notorious artwork exhibition round 1979 or 81, a NY present titled ‘Dangerous Portray’ (I imagine that was the title).I may look it up, however from my reminiscence, painters like David Salle had been included.I believe I learn that Leland Bell noticed Salle’s work and didn’t perceive why it was painted the way in which it was (while you consider a basic Salle portray).Somebody tried to clarify to Bell that the portray was painted badly on function, and Bell remarked, ‘That’s ridiculous.’ That is simply my reminiscence from studying this within the late Nineteen Eighties.I confirmed this interchange (from an artwork journal) to my portray teacher then and stated that Bell doesn’t perceive the irony of creating artwork from that perspective.However I used to be additionally 20 years outdated and within the 80s artwork world and painters that Warhol influenced.I hadn’t developed an curiosity but in painters like Cezanne or Matisse.It takes time and improvement via some depth of immersion to understand the standard and feeling in portray.On the identical time, there have been issues about portray that I immediately gravitated in direction of (like colour).

I suppose I’m saying that in the event you don’t see the interplay of kind, you’ll extra seemingly gravitate in direction of one other interpretation, comparable to irony or conceptual.Maybe a standup comic can mock another person’s life and get fun solely as a result of the comic and the viewers haven’t lived that (mocked) individual’s life.They aren’t inside that individual’s life.I are likely to assume that painters admire portray as a result of they have a look at it and live the lifetime of the portray.The painter can see and picture the considering and the sensation that went on to make that portray; they’ll see what the painter was responding to and the way they’re shaping it.Fairfield Porter talked about the concept the individual wanting on the portray lives the painter’s life ‘vicariously.’The painter can see into the portray and uncover the impulse and the motivation of the portray.